Gud morning to all
We should talk on factual basis and not just words. The cost auditors have right to cost audit the firms but only 3 industries till yet and CAs could also do the cost audit. But the question is why are we running behind the COST AUDIT??
CMAs from ICMAP already have the bigger chunk of the market share not only in Pakistan but world over as well. I would name you companies where there are ACMAs in majority in the organization. You visit these companies and see if I am right or wrong?
Getz Pharma
BMS
GSK
Sanofi Aventis
Philips
ICI
Novartis
Shan Foods
Gul Ahmed and other textile companies
You would find CMAs there and companies recognise their skills. This is really immature thought that CMAs are in competition with CAs from ICAP, no that is not fact. BUT the matter of fact is that yes ACCA CIMA and CMA USA CPA USA and CFA are giving competition to these institutes, and if both institutes ICMAP and ICAP do not change their policies then they would loose the market share and are losing the same.
Rest think logical doing CA is not economical and even middle class could not afford it properly now, but ICMAP is on the other hand of same calibre, the course outline is the same and examination process is the same, and much cheaper. Now imagine yourself who would be passing out more qualified professional! Plus ICMAP is an international institute not ICAP, ICMAP has branches in KSA, CANADA, DUBAI and Australia is in progress. Name me ICAP's international branch if any, you would not be able to.
Now this is factual discussion. Do not be angry while discussing thing but be rational and believe me it depends in the person himself how much competent he is even if he is only MCom.
Regards
Shaheryar
To: accountants_forum@yahoogroups.com
From: mnapaks@hotmail.com
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 11:27:54 +0000
Subject: RE: [accountants_forum] Rights COST AUDIT Authority
We should talk on factual basis and not just words. The cost auditors have right to cost audit the firms but only 3 industries till yet and CAs could also do the cost audit. But the question is why are we running behind the COST AUDIT??
CMAs from ICMAP already have the bigger chunk of the market share not only in Pakistan but world over as well. I would name you companies where there are ACMAs in majority in the organization. You visit these companies and see if I am right or wrong?
Getz Pharma
BMS
GSK
Sanofi Aventis
Philips
ICI
Novartis
Shan Foods
Gul Ahmed and other textile companies
You would find CMAs there and companies recognise their skills. This is really immature thought that CMAs are in competition with CAs from ICAP, no that is not fact. BUT the matter of fact is that yes ACCA CIMA and CMA USA CPA USA and CFA are giving competition to these institutes, and if both institutes ICMAP and ICAP do not change their policies then they would loose the market share and are losing the same.
Rest think logical doing CA is not economical and even middle class could not afford it properly now, but ICMAP is on the other hand of same calibre, the course outline is the same and examination process is the same, and much cheaper. Now imagine yourself who would be passing out more qualified professional! Plus ICMAP is an international institute not ICAP, ICMAP has branches in KSA, CANADA, DUBAI and Australia is in progress. Name me ICAP's international branch if any, you would not be able to.
Now this is factual discussion. Do not be angry while discussing thing but be rational and believe me it depends in the person himself how much competent he is even if he is only MCom.
Regards
Shaheryar
To: accountants_forum@yahoogroups.com
From: mnapaks@hotmail.com
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 11:27:54 +0000
Subject: RE: [accountants_forum] Rights COST AUDIT Authority
Dear Professional Friends
AOA
It is good and positive discussion. There are lot of contributors in Professional Accounting like CAs, CMAs, ACCAs, CMAs, CPAs, MBAs, MPAs, M. Com etc. Public Accounting and Management accounting are two allied fields. We cannot fix boundaries. I am working in MNCs for last 20 years with 10 more with Public Sector Organizations. We could not develop level play ground fiendly for both public and management accounting. If we look at curriculums of all professional bodies it may similar up to large extent. One with better marketing get better opportunities. One major field is wide open that is Management Consulting. It is not important what is being offered to whome we must think how to develop the profession. We all are part of one family. I worked with leading Audit Firm in friendly manners. Yet they need lot of improvements in procedures specially in automated environment I think potential exist for both. Cost Reduction and Control is major strategy with innovation, customer service. Management Accountants got very good future in times to come.
Kind Regards
Munir Ahmad - FCMA-MBA
Lahore 0092-300-8432714
To: accountants_forum@yahoogroups.com
From: farhan.usman@hotmail.com
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 16:21:42 +0600
Subject: RE: [accountants_forum] Rights COST AUDIT Authority
Dear Mohsin
First of all whenever we started to discuss any topic we should discuss it with open mind approach and with professional ethics in mind. Question can be of any type whether mature or immature. . .Ok ? ? ? ? ?
I have enormous experience in the field. Now a days it is very prevailing and hot topic to launch criticism on CAs and members forgot that CMAs have different field of competencies and instead to compete with CMA (UK) we started to compare with CA. . . In UK I didnt see any type of comparison made by CMA with CA. We are claiming right to do cost audits instead to focus on the core competencies of CMAs that is management role in costing, budgeting etc.
CAs are now competing us in the field of management role of organization and what are we doing ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
Most of the big organizations are now hiring CAs for their budgeting, management reporting, and financial analyst activities
Pakistan law already had given right to do cost audits to CAMs there are no restrictions on it. CMAs can conduct cost audit . . . . . Public limited company will not put their trust CMAs on cost audit they will always go for big reputable Audit firms that we are lacking. We are talking about big organizations for cost audit, now these organizations are restricting even their management jobs to only CAs & ACCAs. They signed many MOUs with them. What we are doing for members here ?
There is one news i want to share., . . . i hope you are aware of it. . .ICAP now not consider CMAs eligible to claim exemptions in the paper of audit. . . and it is approved. What action did we take on the ICMAP's directorate level ? ? ? ? nothing . . . .
To: accountants_forum@yahoogroups.com; finpros@yahoogroups.com; samreen_cma@yahoo.com
From: mmy_mohsin@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 23:20:57 -0700
Subject: Re: [accountants_forum] Rights COST AUDIT Authority
From: Farhan Usman <farhan.usman@hotmail.com>
To: accountants_forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 4:13 AM
Subject: RE: [accountants_forum] Rights COST AUDIT Authority
AOA
It is good and positive discussion. There are lot of contributors in Professional Accounting like CAs, CMAs, ACCAs, CMAs, CPAs, MBAs, MPAs, M. Com etc. Public Accounting and Management accounting are two allied fields. We cannot fix boundaries. I am working in MNCs for last 20 years with 10 more with Public Sector Organizations. We could not develop level play ground fiendly for both public and management accounting. If we look at curriculums of all professional bodies it may similar up to large extent. One with better marketing get better opportunities. One major field is wide open that is Management Consulting. It is not important what is being offered to whome we must think how to develop the profession. We all are part of one family. I worked with leading Audit Firm in friendly manners. Yet they need lot of improvements in procedures specially in automated environment I think potential exist for both. Cost Reduction and Control is major strategy with innovation, customer service. Management Accountants got very good future in times to come.
Kind Regards
Munir Ahmad - FCMA-MBA
Lahore 0092-300-8432714
To: accountants_forum@yahoogroups.com
From: farhan.usman@hotmail.com
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 16:21:42 +0600
Subject: RE: [accountants_forum] Rights COST AUDIT Authority
Dear Mohsin
First of all whenever we started to discuss any topic we should discuss it with open mind approach and with professional ethics in mind. Question can be of any type whether mature or immature. . .Ok ? ? ? ? ?
I have enormous experience in the field. Now a days it is very prevailing and hot topic to launch criticism on CAs and members forgot that CMAs have different field of competencies and instead to compete with CMA (UK) we started to compare with CA. . . In UK I didnt see any type of comparison made by CMA with CA. We are claiming right to do cost audits instead to focus on the core competencies of CMAs that is management role in costing, budgeting etc.
CAs are now competing us in the field of management role of organization and what are we doing ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
Most of the big organizations are now hiring CAs for their budgeting, management reporting, and financial analyst activities
Pakistan law already had given right to do cost audits to CAMs there are no restrictions on it. CMAs can conduct cost audit . . . . . Public limited company will not put their trust CMAs on cost audit they will always go for big reputable Audit firms that we are lacking. We are talking about big organizations for cost audit, now these organizations are restricting even their management jobs to only CAs & ACCAs. They signed many MOUs with them. What we are doing for members here ?
There is one news i want to share., . . . i hope you are aware of it. . .ICAP now not consider CMAs eligible to claim exemptions in the paper of audit. . . and it is approved. What action did we take on the ICMAP's directorate level ? ? ? ? nothing . . . .
To: accountants_forum@yahoogroups.com; finpros@yahoogroups.com; samreen_cma@yahoo.com
From: mmy_mohsin@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 23:20:57 -0700
Subject: Re: [accountants_forum] Rights COST AUDIT Authority
Dear Mr. Farhan
If you have good practical experience in field and good knowledge of Pakistan economy and trend, then you would not ask this kind of question. The answer of your immature question is that, if Pakistani law can give authority to only graduates to conduct external audit of public limit company without capital limit, then i guarantee you that, you will find maximum numbers of graduates audit firms, more than chartered accountant firms with high competition with them.
Answer of my another friend who were not still understand that why cost and management accountant strive hard for their right of cost audit instead of concentrating on management accountancy; then the answer is that job of management accountancy is a open field, as i know some good CA qualified, doing the same job, and some graduates in small firm doing same efforts in their organizations. Another suggestion to respected and sincere bodies of ICMAP that, if they would remove the word "COST" from their identity then I guarantee also that no one will accept their importance.
In short, we neither forget our vision, nor want to stand on the position of external auditors. We are hereby just let all to know that, PLEASE recognize the rights of each and every professional, instead of let them down or to force them to leave Pakistan.
Regards
Mohsin Yousuf
From: Farhan Usman <farhan.usman@hotmail.com>
To: accountants_forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 4:13 AM
Subject: RE: [accountants_forum] Rights COST AUDIT Authority
Dear Friend
Before making any comment on the raised issue . . I want to ask one question from you and all who are interested.
Can any one tell me how many Cost Audit Firm do we have in Pakistan registered with ICMAP ?
ICAP have more than 500 CA firms (who obtained practicing certificate from ICAP) . . .
Your answer is more valuable to me
Regards
To: FinProS@yahoogroups.com; ManagementAccountants_Forum@yahoogroups.com; accountants_forum@yahoogroups.com
From: samreen_cma@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 08:46:09 -0700
Subject: [accountants_forum] Rights COST AUDIT Authority
Before making any comment on the raised issue . . I want to ask one question from you and all who are interested.
Can any one tell me how many Cost Audit Firm do we have in Pakistan registered with ICMAP ?
ICAP have more than 500 CA firms (who obtained practicing certificate from ICAP) . . .
Your answer is more valuable to me
Regards
To: FinProS@yahoogroups.com; ManagementAccountants_Forum@yahoogroups.com; accountants_forum@yahoogroups.com
From: samreen_cma@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 08:46:09 -0700
Subject: [accountants_forum] Rights COST AUDIT Authority
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