I think ICAP should follow the steps of ICMAP. ICMAP is cheap as effective as ICAP, both have the same course outline, the only difference is that ICMAP does not has the ARTICLE SHIP requirement. Mostly you will find ACMAs in organization and in the world in accounts and Finance even in supply chain now. Yes, I feel that ICAP is not for poor and even middle class people who need to earn for doing their studies and running or contributing to their families. The tution classes should not be mandatory. I am an ACMA and i have done self study my whole ICMAP career and just filled assignments as distance learning programme. ICMAP is in now UAE, KSA, CANADA, and now they are also working to open ICMAP branch office in Australia as well, inshallah soon it will open.
Modern certifications are much shorter and give you the same knowledge bank as ICAP or ICMAP like CMA USA, CPA USA, ACCA UK, CIMA UK. I fear that their would be almost no one doing CA from ICAP after 5 years duration as even Ferguson has issued a memorandum for inducting ACCA students worlwide. ICAP is losing against ACCA in Pakistan as well which proves that ICAP's policies are wrong and need a lot of changes.
I am in UAE and have exposure of different other regions as well and this has changed my experience and perception completely. I have seen mere MBAs earning more than CAs and CMAs and now the CMA USA and CPA USA are drawing much more than all of them, just imagine the starting salary is more than 10k AED at this time!! So I would prefer for the young guns to do MBA and then go for CMA USA which has just 2 papers, 300 $ each, and is very easy for even a B.Com average student.
If any one need CAREER COUNSELING then please I am here to help my musalman brothers and sisters and other professionals.
Please professionals comment!
Regards
Shaheryar
00971556748301
To: wellwisher2all@yahoo.com; finpros@yahoogroups.com
CC: finpros@yahoogroups.com
From: safar_aly@yahoo.com
Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 08:02:32 -0700
Subject: Re: [FiNpRoS] Fw: Specially for Finance Professionals - must read
From: Whistle Blowers <wellwisher2all@yahoo.com>
To: "finpros@yahoogroups.com" <finpros@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "finpros@yahoogroups.com" <finpros@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, July 5, 2011 5:33:57 PM
Subject: [FiNpRoS] Fw: Specially for Finance Professionals - must read
er
Modern certifications are much shorter and give you the same knowledge bank as ICAP or ICMAP like CMA USA, CPA USA, ACCA UK, CIMA UK. I fear that their would be almost no one doing CA from ICAP after 5 years duration as even Ferguson has issued a memorandum for inducting ACCA students worlwide. ICAP is losing against ACCA in Pakistan as well which proves that ICAP's policies are wrong and need a lot of changes.
I am in UAE and have exposure of different other regions as well and this has changed my experience and perception completely. I have seen mere MBAs earning more than CAs and CMAs and now the CMA USA and CPA USA are drawing much more than all of them, just imagine the starting salary is more than 10k AED at this time!! So I would prefer for the young guns to do MBA and then go for CMA USA which has just 2 papers, 300 $ each, and is very easy for even a B.Com average student.
If any one need CAREER COUNSELING then please I am here to help my musalman brothers and sisters and other professionals.
Please professionals comment!
Regards
Shaheryar
00971556748301
To: wellwisher2all@yahoo.com; finpros@yahoogroups.com
CC: finpros@yahoogroups.com
From: safar_aly@yahoo.com
Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 08:02:32 -0700
Subject: Re: [FiNpRoS] Fw: Specially for Finance Professionals - must read
Dear Whishtle Blower
None of the matter mentioned below are actually issues.....
1- Study Period of 3.5 years - is part of the qualification requirement and all professional studies have their duration. MBA takes 4 years, doctors 5 years and so on & so forth. The period is well-known to student and it is their own wish to persue this qualification or not (further explained below).
2 - Interest free loans are available to each and every deserving (needy) student from Module A to F. The same is to be re-paid after obtaining qualification and getting job. (See ICAP website for Loan facilities and criteria).
3 - The stipend rates are approved by ICAP and all Audit Firms follow it. Some firms pay higher than the minimum ICAP stipend rates. Once the Contract is finished (i.e. after 3.5 years), it is upon the Firm and trainee whether they want to extend the contract or not. It's a mutual decision and no one can force it.
4 - THe purpose of training is well cleared and there is no ambiguity about it. The basic aim is to groom the professional skill in diversified environment and support the advance level studies.
5 - All firms carry out the basic level of training because later on the same will decrease their supervision and work. In term of resources yes it may be true all the firms may not have the adequate resources but before joining any particular firm one must research well to obtain information about the firm, its culture and the working environment.
Your desired outcomes:
None of your desired outcome are logical and feasible (except last 1):
1 - Shortening training period will decrease the exams duration and thus will create further difficulties to pass such exams due to lack of knowledge, developement and professional exposure.
2 - Stipends that are being paid by the industry are less (most of the cases) than what the firms are currently offering. One must not ignore the fact that in addition to stipends trainees get conveyance reimbursement, overtime, lunch / dinner reimbursement etc. which are not taken into account by many people. If you compare all these benefits, one will realized that he/she is being paid similar to what the market value is.
3 - Opening articles to industry will decrease the monopoly of the audit firms but it will also reduce the learning of students/ trainee as well. Since the person will be getting the exposure of only 1 Company (different department). That individual will be dependent / restricted to 1 Company at max to 1 industry, which is not good in general for that prfessional / individual.
4 - lastly similar forums are available and students are encouraged to provide their honest opinion. There is room for improvement in this regard however it cannot be stated that such things are not available or are discouraged.
Sorry Whistle Blower .... next time come up with logical criticism....
From: Whistle Blowers <wellwisher2all@yahoo.com>
To: "finpros@yahoogroups.com" <finpros@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "finpros@yahoogroups.com" <finpros@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, July 5, 2011 5:33:57 PM
Subject: [FiNpRoS] Fw: Specially for Finance Professionals - must read
----- Forwarded Message -----
To:
Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2011 4:17 PM
Subject: Specially for Chartered accountants - must read
To:
Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2011 4:17 PM
Subject: Specially for Chartered accountants - must read
Being a trainee students, we would like to draw your kind attention towards some aspects of the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Pakistan (ICAP) mandatory training policy.
Aspects
1. It is noted that ICAP training period is 3.5 year (6 months extension in case the student unable to pass exams in 1st attempt) which is longest period as compared to other International Accountancy Bodies. Only 5% to 6% are able to complete CA articles in 3 years and thus majority of trainees are required to complete training for 3.5 years.
2. The CA education is no more viable study option for students belonging to underprivileged class because of increase in private tuitions fees and stipend offered to trainees during the training period. On the other hand, many students are afraid of doing articles from CA firms because of tough working conditions, unrealistic deadlines, rude and unethical behavior of seniors. This sort of behavior deteriorates professional skills, exploits moral outlook and human rights.
3. There is no policy for periodic review of stipend rates according to general economic inflation level in the Country. It is also a point to consider that CA firms are unwilling to pay Rs. 25,000 to trainees who pass CA exams in first attempt for any extended period.
4. The purpose of training is not reviewed. Most of the students are frustrated professionals because of pitiable attitude of seniors, non-recognition of struggles and non-promotion on time or performance basis. Their basic aim is to complete the training on time and hence the core objective of training is being compromised.
5. The partners of the firm are become more cost conscious, following cost cutting strategies and doing unethical acts to achieve the desired strategy. It is with regret to say that most training organization does not provide even basic training briefing/workshops/tools to student, non-availability of IT assets and inadequate seating arrangements and these issues are increasing day by day.
Desired Outcome of above aspects
1. Training period should be restricted to 3 years.
2. Stipends should be revised in line with market so that CA profession is also available / feasible for students facing financial difficulties.
3. Introduction of industry-based article to interlude the monopoly of CA firms.
4. The ICAP should conduct annual trainee survey in order to extract relevant information regarding quality of training, desired training benefits achieved, recommendation for improvement of training conditions, difficulties and problems facing by the trainees etc.
Finally, we wish that it is high time that ICAP should take serious decision to flourish this profession in future.
Regards
Well wisher
Request:
If you think that all of the above aspects are correct, please pass it out to others to promote CA profession so that unethical practices doesnot have a chance to grow.
If you think that all of the above aspects are correct, please pass it out to others to promote CA profession so that unethical practices doesnot have a chance to grow.
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MARKETPLACE
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